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Punishment and job bug with version 4.0?

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Topic starter

Hi Sven... While running the script below in 4.0 v13 the additional punishment is NOT given at the deadline if it is started in the assignment list. If it is not started then the additional punishment is given. In 3.0 the punishment is given at the deadline. It is similar if a job is assigned. Is this a bug?

Thanks for your help

 

Chazz

 

[report-punish]
punish=2,15
punishmentgroup=min

[punishment-punishment given]
TEXT=
TEXT=Min punishment given - Deadline: {!zzdeadline}
group=min
Accumulative=1
LongRunning=1
respit=00:00:10
RemindPenalty=5,20
remindpenaltygroup=more

;-------------------------------------------------------------
[punishment-additional punishment]
TEXT=
TEXT=MOD punishment given - Deadline: {!zzdeadline}
longrunning=1
Muststart=1
group=more
value=50
grouponly=1
respit=24:00

10 Answers
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Hi Chazz,

It is working as designed. I feel that if a long job or punishment is started before the deadline, that is sufficient.

Cheers,
Sven

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Topic starter

Thank you for getting back to me Sven. I didn't realize there was such a change in Version 4. I'm still trying to understand how to make the sub accountable for completing a punishment/ job by a particular time or completing it at all. In version 3, !zzDeadline is defined by Respite= which gives the time when an punishment/job must be finished or an addition punishment received, but in version 4 it is now the time the punishment/job must be started by, correct? There is no additional punishment or accountability as long as the original punishment/job is started. I've tried Longrunning= and it's presence doesn't appear to change that.

In the past my scripts instructed the sub that they must start all punishments/jobs as soon as they are given. They were held accountable by the deadline/respite time. It didn't matter if they had actually started it or not, they would receive an additional punishment if the punishment/job was not completed by the deadline thus holding them accountable. In Version 4, are there variables that act similarly and express when the task must be completed by or an additional punishment given so that the sub is held accountable?

I tried adding remind RemindInterval=to define when the punishment would need to be completed or another, more severe, punishment was given but that didn't appear to work. If possible, can you please give me an example of how to make the sub accountable and not just leaving their punishment/job in the assignment list after they started it?

Thanks so much Sven. I really appreciate all your time and effort. You have created a masterpiece. Sorry, I can't seem grasp this change for some reason.

Chazz 

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Hi Chazz,

I don't remember when the change was made, but I believe you when you say that it was in version 4.

A very long time ago (version 3 something), a punishment was issued when an assignment was completed after the deadline. Then I realized that I was punishing the sub for completing a job. Not a phycological very smart thing to do. That is when I changed to punish for not having completed before the deadline. And that is where RemindInterval and RemindPenalty became relevant. Punishing first time at the deadline and then with regular intervals (RemindInterval ) until the sub have completed the assignment.

Later, in my personal experience, I could see situations where it was impossible for the sub to complete a job or punishment on time. So I decided that when he/she has shown their good will and started before the deadline, it would be satisfactory.

Of course the sub should not be able to just start everything and leave it open. That can be prevented by keywords like MaxTime and Resource. The last one can be used to prevent the sub from starting similar assignments simultaneously.

I still think the sub can be held accountable. Just a little less severe and with a bit more reason.

I hope that this explanation helps you. I am writing this from memory. Not every detail is necessarily correct.

Sven

 

 

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Topic starter

Hi Sven,

I hope things are going well preparing for the Holidays.

As I see it, the change significantly changes the appearance of the program. The sub used to be able to follow the "Deadline" area of the Assignments list to know which tasks needed to be completed first however now the "Deadline" area describes the time the task must be started by. 

There are also inconsistencies in the manual. Respite was defined as:

Respite=hh:mm Specifies how much time (in hours and minutes) before the sub must have finished the punishment.

Would it be possible to change "Deadline" in the Assignment area to the Maxtime or change the word "Deadline" to "Start by"? Once the task is started the "Must be completed by" (equal to the Maxtime) time can be defined in a text=

Thank you for your consideration. 

Chazz

 

 

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Hi Chazz,

I am very much in doubt whether I should change it back, so that the assignment must be completed at the deadline.

On one hand, I like the idea of a fixed deadline, when the assignment must be completed.

On the other hand, I don't like punishing a sub for something he/she is working on. And actually a sensible deadline for long punishments (over several days) is difficult to set. What if the sub has to abort it for some reason and start over?

And then there are some technical issues. The way version 4 is working, the sub should be punished immediately if aborting the assignment after the deadline. That don't happen today. It will be easy to do, but it can give some negative effects.

So I need some time to decide what to do.

But you are right. If I decide to keep the new way, some documentation and wording needs to change.

I hope you will have some happy holidays. Despite the corona thread.

Sven

 

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Topic starter

Thanks so much for your reply Sven. 

If I may, I would just like to comment.

"A very long time ago (version 3 something), a punishment was issued when an assignment was completed after the deadline. Then I realized that I was punishing the sub for completing a job. Not a phycological very smart thing to do. That is when I changed to punish for not having completed before the deadline. And that is where RemindInterval and RemindPenalty became relevant. Punishing first time at the deadline and then with regular intervals (RemindInterval ) until the sub has completed the assignment."

I can see your viewpoint, however, In my humble opinion, I feel the point of the program is to control the sub's actions and make consequences. If the sub complies with the deadline they will not receive additional punishment. Setting a realistic deadline is essential, I agree. You should not be punishing the sub for working on an assignment. In doing so and making it easily visible what the deadline is, the sub knows where to focus their efforts thus incorporating behavior modification. The deadline may be several days away, but the sub learns to multitask and to achieve goals as we all do in real life. A reward for an assignment done early might be an idea. 

Happy Holidays Sven. I hope they are great for you in this crazy year. 

 

Chazz

 

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Hi Chazz,

I am considering to return to the old ways, where an assignment must be completed before the deadline.

I have been considering pro et con, and I guess that you are right. A deadline should be a deadline.

Sven

 

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Topic starter

Sven

Thank you for your consideration and all you do. It's very much appreciated.

 

Chazz

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Hi Chazz,

I decided to agree with you that a deadline should be a deadline. It is changed in the new beta 14.

Sven

 

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Topic starter

Thank you Sven. I'm really looking forward to exploring the new changes.